Tight Deadlines = Better Music? Max Brodie on Composing, Studio Workflow & Tom Rosenthal (Part 2)

Tight Deadlines = Better Music? Max Brodie on Composing, Studio Workflow & Tom Ronsenthal

This is Part 2 of our conversation with composer and sound designer, Max Brodie. If you missed Part 1, check that out first! 

We pick up with a nerdy dive into technology, computer specs, and studio equipment - Jeff’s in his element! 

We chat about Max’s composing process, from the initial panic to the clarity of a spotting session, and tight deadlines which force him to let go of perfection. He shares tips including use templates, keeping recording gear and mics ready to go, and using ensemble patches to sketch ideas quickly.

We also explore how time constraints can be an advantage, shaping a distinct sound for a project, and how one composer famous wrote a Coca-Cola ad track in an airport on the way to their meeting! 

Finally, Max tells us about his collaboration with singer-songwriter Tom Rosenthal, from their first meeting in Max’s back-garden shed-turned-studio to writing and producing albums together that gained viral TikTok traction. 

You can check out more of Max’s work here: https://www.maxbrodie.co.uk 

Don’t forget to follow, rate our show, and leave us a comment! 

#composer #composertips #tomrosenthal #animationcomposer #studioworkflow   

Transcript

Jeff (00:00.526)

And now part two of our conversation with composer producer Max Brodie. What kind of computer are you running? I know this is really geeky.

David (00:08.32)

Here we go, this is gonna really bring the listeners! 

Max (00:10.186)

I love this. I love this. I'm so I'm so geeky honestly. This is the first time that I've had this real time constraint. So now I know what is possible. Like I would never have thought before I could do that in that short period of time. You know, when I signed up for the job, I think it was an episode a week. It was the same money, but it was an episode a week. Everyone found out about schedule. I think I remember thinking, oh, okay. I've gotta do double the amount. But then I spoke to some other people and they reassured me this wasn't like outrageous.

David (00:39.278)

That's just how it was done.

David (00:49.152)

So they send you an episode and Sam says here you go, here's an episode, you do your spotting session. Then what? You hit a piano and flesh out? Or you immediately say, okay, I'm going to orchestrate from nothing? What's the actual, if we get into the nitty gritty of the process?

Max (01:07.682)

Yeah, yeah. Panic for like honestly for about two hours. My brothers in arms, Jez and Fred, who did the sound design, would be the same. You get the, you know, and I'm sure everyone's the same. You get the thing back and it's got you know, it's got some temp stuff on, but they haven't got a lot of time to do the temp so it's you know, Inception soundtrack or something like that, which just you can't even you can't even really listen to it 'cause it's just like, well, you know, I'm not gonna do that in two and a half days, you know, whatever, something like that. So I think initially you're like, how am I gonna do this? Seven minutes. Like I don't, and then you start to pull things together. And obviously the first few episodes are the hardest because you haven't got any material to go off. Like in the pilot, luckily the broadcaster who was BBC, they liked what I did in the pilot. So we could use some of the themes. So the first few episodes I wasn't trying to find themes, like we had we had a place to start from, but what I did was every session I made a new Pro Tools session that imported all the all the cues from the previous episode. So I ended up with this like massive session. Like episode fifty is like, I think the time code on it's something like seven hours or something. It's like massive. But it meant that you could jump back to another episode and you could find something 'cause you've only got two and a half days. You could find something, a cue that was kind of, or you can like you're not copying the audio, you're copying the material.

So it's in there and you can, you know, you can quickly you can build something more quickly. That’s how you start to think. Then you put it in and you're like, it doesn't quite work. Then you'd have to rewrite it anyway. But that's kind of how it develops. Yeah, yeah. And I think you've just you've got to lean into that 'cause there's a lot of it's reuse. You haven't got time to be really precious. And if you did have two weeks per episode, yeah, I could have probably made more interest in music, maybe. 

David

But that’s not the point of the show, right?

Max

No, well, also I think that constraint's really good because it keeps it in a certain world and you never like you know, over a year, which is how long I was on the show for, you'll you're gonna find different music that you're into. Or you're gonna find different albums that you'll love for like four weeks or whatever. And it's like, I think if you, the danger there is you if you if you're not reusing stuff, it could start to sound very different, like quite quickly really. If you do it on something for a year that long. So that kind of constraint actually was really good to give it a sound and then you stayed in that world. I rarely added stuff, unless it was genre based, rarely added stuff to the template, and then back to your question, David, about do you start at piano? Depends on the depends on the cue. Like a lot of the cues were like a lot of the action based cues I would start with like a like a multi patch, some sort of like full orchestral multi patch just to get something going and then I'd then I'd split it up to the different sections if I think it needed it. But sometimes it'd just work really well. If it's five seconds of music, it just feels big for five seconds and then that was fine.

Jeff (04:11.916)

Why make your life complicated?

David (04:13.323)

Yeah, you don’t need to do it.

Max (04:14.158)

Yeah. Yeah, it's just yeah. So it depends really. And then there's some you know, there'd be some emotional cues that were more piano and string led that I might just freestyle the string lines without a click or anything and then plopping the piano to that afterwards and then that's kind of that's as much time I've got to spend on that and it sounds fine. So that was-

David (04:34.786)

What a discipline. I haven't got any more time, so it's got to be right.

Max (04:39.554)

Well, yeah, I think I had to learn that. It wasn't that it was a lot of late nights at the start. Not doing that. And then realising like why are you doing this? 

David (04:47.982)

You can't do that. So you've been on it a year? Sorry, you go Jeff.

Jeff (04:53.206)

No, I was just gonna say that it's interesting how and maybe it's just when you look at something in retrospect you're able to say, wow, that was really helpful or it worked, you know, that, you know, having so little time to do the music, whether it's the show that you just worked on or any other show, like that defined amount of time dictates what the music is gonna be like, right? 'Cause you've only got so much time to work on it.

And maybe it keeps it simple, which is great and you know, I don't know. It's just interesting to look at how the final outcome is dictated by the amount of time that that the show or whoever is giving you that much to work to like, okay, well this is what the music's gonna be 'cause I got two minutes and or two days and it works out 'cause that's great. You know.

Max (05:41.057)

Exactly that. Yeah.

David (05:42.51)

I remember hearing a story about the guy that made, because we'll come on to commercials and stuff in a minute, but just as an aside, there was a really famous Coke ad, but back in the day when they were just writing it on paper and then having to play it to somebody that wasn't recorded. And this guy was flying into a meeting. I remember hearing this story and he'd got nothing and he was sat in an airport and I might have this story wrong, but he heard somebody whistling just a couple of notes and thought, that would work! And he was sat in an airport writing it down on paper and when he got there he had to present this idea that he, I mean he did like, got nothing. And it became one of the largest selling commercials that played for years and years. Just no time, there was no time. He didn't have time to go away and work, he just worked with the constraint that you had. And no recording, but were you on, just going back for a sec, were you on Duck and Frog like just that for a year?

Max (06:38.966)

No, I had to do other stuff as well, 'cause it's not really a lot of a lot of that children's entertainment you, financially it works with the back end involved as well. So, it's not it's not really feasible. No, no. I think unless you're like, you know unless they really, really want you to do it, like the commissioner, and they'll pay you whatever you ask. I think it's-

David

So you didn’t get that deal then?

Max

No, I didn't get that deal, sadly. Yeah. Maybe, maybe at some point.

David (07:07.831)

Next time.

Max (07:08.778)

No pff, yeah. But I think also this was my first big animated series. So that I mean, that's taken me, that my dream is to do animated series. That's my like long term goal and that's what I love doing. And it's taken me this long, like I've been doing this probably the whole time I've known you, David, maybe a bit longer, but it's taken me that long just to, you know, get that first animated series. Because obviously they spend a lot of money on these projects and if you haven't done one before-

David (07:39.086)

It's always the time.

Max (07:40.17)

Axactly. Exactly. And why are they gonna, you know, why are they gonna take a risk on you? Which is luckily I had someone like Sam who it is his show, it's his idea, and I've known him for years and he'd back me. And I'm sure there are probably points where BBC were like, are you sure you wanna use this guy who's never done one before? you know, you like you said, you’re committing to fifty episodes, it's a lot of time for them. And if you get it you know, if you don't do it right, it's a lot of hassle for them as well. But I think also now this is the firsttime that I've had this real ridiculous in my you know in my experience, time constraint. So now I know what is possible. Like I would never have thought before you know I could do that in that short period of time. And I think actually when I to you know when I signed up for the job, I think it was an episode a week. It was the same money, but it was an episode a week. And we ended up doing two episodes a week. I think I remember when that got like, you know, everyone found out about schedule. I think I remember thinking, okay. I've gottado double the amount, but then I spoke to some other people and they reassured me this wasn't like outrageous. That's just how it was done. Like there's a really incredible composer, but he's also incredibly kind human being, called Brad Breek. He's based in LA, and he does like loads of basically on like Disney XD or something like that. Any big animation series that they've done, he's probably done the music for it. He's incredible. You know, speaking to him about the time he gets to do stuff. And I just can't believe what he produces in the time he gets to do stuff. It's like insane. Like it's absolutely amazing. So, when you find out those pieces of information, you feel a bit better about what's happening. It's not just your circumstance. And also, mine was I'm not you know, David mentioned it before, me asking him what chord that was. Like I come from the band world of learning music, I would call it, and it's, I don't know much theory at all and I don't know maybe how certain parts should go together or certain instruments should go together, which I think is my strength in some ways because I can make it sound different to someone who does know how these things go together. But I was speaking to another composer called Christopher Willis who did he's done loads of other stuff, but I really love the music he did for the Mickey Mouse, there's like a new Mickey Mouse series he did. And it's absolutely incredible. Like if honest, like the music on it's just insane, it's like kind of like Heydays, nineteen forties like Disney. It's incredible, absolutely incredible. And I remember him telling me like how short a period of time he got to do it. And I was just like, how? Like I am I am you know, having a pin like I mentioned pastiches before, I'm making that sound, you know, like that type of composer. I'm making it sound like that. Your music sounds like a piece of that composer as well. How are you getting that done? So like some people 'cause you know, got away worse than me time scale time frame wise.

David (10:38.19)

I guess they have to understand how that's written and understand conceptually what type of chords were used, what type of harmony, what type of movement. So you just gotta do it faster.

Max (10:50.018)

And also if you have access to, and not you know, don't not use this a crutch, but I think you can beat yourself down of like especially in that world, if I'm working on an episode then I reference a like I said, Heydays, Disney, whatever series. And I'm just like, how did they get that Hawaiian piece of music to sound like that? Like how have they made that sound so amazing, like you know, so legit? And then you forget that they had like studio orchestras that would be there all day, every day. And they'd say, can you just try this you knoweveryone do this gliss like this. Can you just mm, maybe. And then so they had these options. Obviously, we've got really simple options as well. We can just press a note and play anything. But a lot of those sounds now I understand how they might have achieved certain things in the time they had as well. It, it was these amazing players as well who all-

David (11:39.81)

Yeah, they turn up every day and that was what they did. Every day they'd punch in like a clock and...

Max (11:44.31)

Totally. And if you read up on some of these players, like I can't remember who it was, some trombonist in that band. But they had you know, he had his own Dixie Jazz band that he played on the weekends. And so they know this music as well. It's like they you know, when they're like you they're doing some like skiffle track or whatever, that's what they like to play as well. It's not just them just, picking a random thing out. It's what they love to play.

Jeff (12:10.488)

And yeah, how interesting that you said that we can press a key and play anything. I think what's quite the opposite. We can press a key and and play what someone put into a machine. Whereas back in those days, they would stand they were creating and collaborating with a whole group of orchestra and really creating right at that moment. You know what I mean? Like you mentioned the gliss or whatever, and they'd be like, okay, you start there, start with the bones and believe in this key and they'd do it. So just yeah.

David (12:38.602)

Yeah, we definitely get constricted by the sample that we're using or the sound that we've got available to us. I know I do. You write differently because you say, okay, it doesn't have that, but it has this. So I didn't write that thing. I would have heard, and I guess it must be the same.

Max (12:52.822)

Yeah, I remember when you introduced me to those, David, you introduced me to those swam, swam, however you say I don't know. Those guys.

David (12:59.82)

I'm in that heaven or hell depending right at moment we're doing a project and I'm deep in that at the moment.

Max (13:05.87)

Well see, so now I've got the different, you know, versions of the trombone for the different manufacturers. And you definitely do bounce between them for different types of music and it's not all now you know, now I've got the Swam trombone and I'm set for life. It's, it would like work for a certain thing and it won't work for others and that's

David (13:24.182)

No, no, occasionally you need a trombonist. We try not to too often. Oh man, we could talk to you for hours.

Jeff (13:38.018)

I'm curious to know about your setup 'cause y you mentioned that huge Pro Tools file or project. What kind of computer are you running? I know this is really geeky.

David (13:47.744)

Here we go, this is gonna really bring the listeners.

Max (13:49.64)

I love this. I love this. I'm so I'm so geeky, honestly. I've listened to since it came out. There's a podcast called Mac Power Users. Anyone ever heard that?

David (13:58.729)

Oh god, I'd have to shoot myself.

Max (14:00.814)

Honestly, it's, I don't offend it, it's it's so it like whenever I have it on, my wife's always like, what are you listening to? And they're talking about, you know, like automation for about three hours or something. So I'm yeah, I'm totally all over this, Jeff. I've just got a Mac Studio, I'll tell you what it is.

David (14:19.094)

One of the new ones?

Jeff (14:20.534)

It's like a M3 ultra.

Max (14:23.406)

M2 ultra, 192 GB of RAM. Yeah, I mean it's really good. I was running off a laptop, a recent Apple silicon laptop before Duck of Frog, and that's been that's always been fine. And then as this template got bigger and bigger I was just like, I just don't want I just don't want the problem of having to it not it not be, you know, workable.

Jeff (14:49.442)

You don't you can't afford downtime.

Max (14:51.222)

No, no exactly. And so it's been it's been incredible. It's silent. It's in the studio, it's just right next to me. Right next to my microphones, you don't hear it ever. Yeah, got that, got a bunch of-

Jeff (15:03.0)

How many how many like drives with sounds are connected to that?

Max (15:08.45)

One of those black, loads. One of those black magic things, you know, with the multiple SD SSDs you stick in. Yeah, yeah. Just one of them. So four, four SSD. I think they're both I think they're all 4 TB though, so it's like that's stuff. But Yeah, no, no, that's it. And then yeah, I have all my other stuff it's like set up analogue wise.

Jeff (15:29.986)

Were you using any of the analogue stuff? I mean, obviously I know you're a player is guitar your first instrument?

Max (15:36.726)

Guitar's my first thing, yeah, yeah, guitar's my first thing. Yeah, so I've got an amp that's always set up with two mics on it. That's you know, they're always set up at the back for certain sounds. I've got, something I've really started to integrate on duck and frog just for the speed element, which has turned out to be just an incredible piece of equipment, is the Quad Cortex, I think that's what it's called. I don't know. But it's it's a guitar multi effects thing. with lots lots lots lots of amp processing like that. But it's just absolutely rapid. Like you can just fly through anything. Some of the presets they've made that's kind of in it are just amazing, especially when it's like death metal and then it's you know, nineteen fifties spy guitar or whatever. Like yeah, I mean I haven't got time to I but it's mainly even the tunings. I haven't got time to tune my guitar to drop A or something, you know, or open A or something. I haven't got time to do that. So Yeah, so it's things like that you can pitch inside the thing, and it actually sounds good. It doesn't sound all like janky how it does if you try and do it afterwards.

Jeff (16:43.032)

So how much of that would were you doing on Duck and Frog? Like you'd get a cue and you'd be like, okay, well, I need, you know, ten seconds of this, I'm just gonna grab my guitar and put it down and-

Max (16:51.948)

Totally. Yeah, yeah. And it's ready. And it's ready. And like the microphones they have are all on little arms. So you just like0

Max (17:02.871)

This is literally, you need some ukulele Okay, cool, doosh. Like you can't even see.

David (17:07.021)

Turn it around there you go. There you go.

Max (17:10.72)

And then you just pull it down and you do the ukulele thing and I'm not like, I've gotta set it up, you know, this far away from the twelfth fret or whatever. I'm not doing any of that. Boosh boosh boosh, everything's plugged in. Yeah.

David (17:25.536)

So it's not all sample world, it’s not all SWAM.

Max (17:28.533)

It's a lot it's a lot of samples, but it's the stuff that I know how to play well and fast I will do. And I know how to make that make that sound better. Also like any kind of tension moments and things like that I like to do with percussion things or like bowing weird stuff. Just to get an element in there that's not just everyone has gravity or whatever they use, you know, like one of these heavy osti things. Like just to add something else to the sound..

Jeff (18:00.43)

To the palette, yes. Very cool. Love it.

David (18:05.801)

You mentioned that you split into all different worlds and do different things. Commercials and that kind of stuff. Are you still doing that?

Max (18:14.478)

Still do it. I only do it really now for like the directors who I know well or like have a certain relationship with. A lot of these post houses will you know, send the brief out to loads of people. Say the win fee is twenty five grand or whatever, and so then you're like, oooh okay. I can write a piece of music for twenty five thousand pounds, yeah. But then, you know, I once was recipient of an email. There was one of these emails and they accidentally CC'd everyone rather than BCC’d and everyone. And there was honestly 120 people on there. 

David (18:52.878)

You might as well buy a lottery ticket.

Max

And so some of these people were like very famous composers as well. And I was just like, I can't believe this is how this works. Like-

David (19:03.347)

But hey, now you've got their email address.

Max (19:06.592)

Exactly. But yeah, sold that straight away. Got it on some sort of data website.

David (19:10.446)

25 grand! 25 grand baby just for selling the email addresses. Oh man, yeah but that's...

Max (19:15.202)

Yeah, so I think of people did that and it's hard going. I did win quite a few jobs like that and you know, sometimes they're good money, but like it's not reliable. And it helps you get your chops because a lot of it's like, can you do this by tomorrow? You're like, okay, cool, yeah, why not? I'll try it. And then you have a go and you sometimes it's really good, sometimes what you send's awful. But yeah, so I still do a few pieces like that with companies that I know when they ask me, they're asking for my sound. They're not just asking like, can you make a pop song that sounds like s insert name that's like hot right now. I know they when they ask me It's because they think I might do the right thing. So I do that a few times still every year, maybe four or five times a year. And then the other stuff, yeah it’s all directors I just work with when the when they ask me to do it, I've got the job. I don't have to pitch. It's I'm doing the job. So and a lot of that work is also the sound design work as well, which has really helped me so-

David

That’s interesting.

Max (20:17.802)

Yeah, some of these directors have got in the door by doing sound design on their projects that they you know, maybe there wasn't the budget for sound design.

Jeff (20:27.138)

So yeah, I was just gonna ask you how you met these directors. So it was through the sound design stuff? Or or, and working for for peanuts for a job.

Max (20:37.834)

Yeah, I think a lot of these directors who do commercials, even like big commercials, they still want you know, they have ambitions of being in film or TV or whatever and they still make short films and they still make their own stuff. So, a lot of the people I would work with like and it wasn't you know, it wasn't with an intention that they'll eventually pay me one day. But it was, you know, just to make stuff with someone who wants to make something cool. So I would do short films with them. A project we've, I've recently got, that's come from a guy that we've just collaborated for the last ten years and nothing has ever been paid. And we've just made stuff together and then eventually now we've kind of got a thing that someone recognised and now we're making something. It’s got some money involved.

David (21:23.166)

You did a wild show at the... I don't know how wild it was, I'm making that up... at the Fringe in Edinburgh. What was that?

Max (21:29.781)

Yeah, yeah I did, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was another one of those calls that I gave you, David. David, how to write a piece of music that sounds like cabaret?

David (21:35.855)

I get these calls. I get these booty calls that... 

Max (21:39.726)

Yeah. Two in the morning. Yeah. Yeah, that was a friend of mine called Adrian Bliss, and he's, he started off as like a YouTube in the YouTube kind of world. Had had quite a big following on there and still does, but he's an incredible comedian, just maker of things. He's just incredibly entertaining. And he, I think it was during Covid, but he did this this kind of series of skits that was about just random characters and history. And then he ended up developing that into this show called Inside Everyone. And it was basically about from the beginning of time until now, how you know the same atom could be inside everyone. And it was this kind of like story of the atom going through different ages. And it was you know, it's his sense of humour, which is also my sense of humour.

But I did the music and sound design on that just because I've known him for years. One of the songs was called Hitler's Dad's Other Sperm. So it like, you can imagine like the how the stories went. So some of them were really funny, some of them were like quite dark, some you know, what could have been. That was that song was what could have been. And this and this yeah, the other sperm was a fantastic person.

So yeah, but that's an example of something else. Like Adrian rang me and it, someone else had told him I did the sound design stuff, so I think he knew I'd do the sound design stuff. And he was like, you ever done a musical? I was like, err no, but I'll give it a go. So then we just gave it a go. And it's yeah, fulfilling one of those just creative things and I would definitely do it again, but it was-

David (23:27.149)

Wow.

Jeff (23:27.852)

That's so fantastic. Well, and and one of the most important things for anyone who's listening and want to get in the business, you gotta, you gotta write music because you love writing music. You gotta make art because you love making art.

David (23:41.27)

Well, and you're doing it with, as you said, you just met people and you carried on doing it. Money, no money. Just do it. And then that leads to that old movie. What was it? Yes Day? You just say yes and you do a bunch of stuff. Yeah.

Jeff (23:48.886)

Make something cool.

Max (23:55.766)

We're only, we're only talking about the good times. Obviously there's times when you do that and you you know, it doesn't work out. Or you get fired or whatever. So like there are times when it doesn't it's not dead fun. 

David (24:07.502)

You've got to kiss a lot of ducks to get a frog. 

We should briefly just talk about the creative collaboration with Tom Rosenthal. Talk us through how you know Tom and the work you've done together.

Max (24:21.954)

We met years ago in that time when I was living in Chester but not at my parents' house. SoI'd moved out of parents' house. So I was probably 20, 21, something like that. He was releasing music on his own and some of that music was beginning to get synced with TV programmes or whatever. And one of the tracks, you know, it wasn't the same kind of time as it is now that when that happens all of a sudden you could have a massive career. Like it wasn't quite as big as that. And it was I think something he, one of his tracks on the first album he ever did was on a programme called Skins, which at the time in the UK was like quite a cult, kind of like young person's programme. So lots of people my age or younger heard that track and I wanted to work with him. So yeah, I when I was in that house in Chester, it's a bit weird really when thinking about it, but I would like invite people who are found just to like come and make some music together. But the intense thing was that it was in the middle of nowhere, so they just like stay at my house. So I remember this the first time I've ever met him. I picked him up from Chester train station. Hi, hi. And then took him took him to my house. And then he just stayed at my house for a week. And we wrote some music and then he went home. And then, you know, that's how it started. But we you know, like I said before, they're not always good experiences, but that was a good experience and we I think we both added something.

Like something Tom also taught me at that early stage I would be really precious about. You know, that's not quite the right thing. Or that's not quite, and he's very, very good at just getting on with something, so he'll get on with it. Or even don't worry about it ever. But y you just, you know, roll with it and yeah, we've worked together ever since. So that's yeah. Nearly fifteen years. And in various ways, you know, for a few albums I'll be heavily involved on the production side of it, or like depends what we're doing and what other things were happening in our lives. His albums were doing really well and he's always had like a cult following. A few albums ago, one of the tracks was picked up on TikTok, it’s like an amazing track but it also hit a point in kind of culture that nostalgia came through via these, you know, compilation videos on social media and things like this. And it was just the perfect type of track to, you know, be with one of those videos. So, it ended up on every person's video that was like that. And then, you know, everyone wants to find that track and then they go on Spotify. And now I think some of these songs on Spotify have got like 500 million plays or something outrageous. Like it's, yeah. It's insane. So watching him 'cause he's always written the same type of music as well. So watching him just write that and at the start people. You know, certain people like it, some people not like it, and now it's just it's just everywhere. Soit's just amazing. It's amazing to watch some of the journey like that.. But yeah, we still work together. 

David (27:23.884)

What an interesting story that he didn't change what he did to search for something. He just did what he did. And then it became right.

Max (27:33.422)

Totally. 

Jeff (27:34.274)

If you build it, they will come.

Max

And he has always had these animated, animated music videos. He's always done these things. So he would go to you know, various, he was based in London, various art schools, animation degree shows. And he'd find someone he liked there and say to them, right, I'll give you this like small amount of money. 'Cause he didn't have any money, he was just like, I'll give this small amount of money, I want to make a music video, like you just make whatever you want to make and I'll put it out. I'm not gonna give you any notes. They'd just make it. Sohe's always he's always had that trust in other creative people. 

David (28:08.393)

That’s a really interesting idea.

Max

But through doing it's absolutely amazing. But some of these films are amazing. there's one, let me see, it was it was at the time when Luis Suarez bit that person.

David (28:19.806)

Ohhh yeah. And if you're in the States, I'm not giving you any context, just Google it.

Max (28:27.154)

And he and he released this song called I think it's called Louis Don't Bite Me or something like that. But you, but this this is his sense of humour. Now this is like quite a common sense of humour in like social media. If something happens in the news or whatever, there'll someone make a you know animated video of satire, satirical video doing that. But he did this in the early days. And yeah, if you go and find that video it's so funny. 

David (28:50.59)

Louis don't bite me. For the football fans, okay, we'll check that out. I love it.

Max (28:57.154)

But yeah, so we yeah, we've just always worked together like that and that's how that's progressed. And he's, you know, he's making all sorts of stuff now. He's got podcasts at the moment, Strangers on the Bench, which is like doing amazing things

Jeff

Everyone’s got a podcast these days.

David (29:11.182)

I'd never do it. Yeah, there’s no money in it.

Max (29:15.03)

Honestly, I think it's like it's one of the top podcasts like Is it really? Yeah, it's insane in the world. It's it's insane. Wow. It's it's a in in you know, in that sphere that it's in which is yeah, he talks to random people on a bench about their life stories. Like he's an incredible human being. So if you listen to one of the episodes you'll understand why people like him.

David (29:32.494)

How are you not on his podcast instead of on this one? That's what I want to know.

Max (29:35.522)

Because it because it's random people. It's completely random people. He doesn't know anyof them.

David (29:40.494)

Right, okay. That is quite, I love it. Max, it’s been a delight. It’s been absolutely fantastic.

Jeff (29:45.802)

Max this is so great man. I'm so glad we finally got to meet, although it was virtual. I look forward to maybe having a beer with you sometime.

David (29:53.742)

Because we didn't explain on air that I've known Max for years and you've known of Max, but you guys have never met. How is that possible? Crazy. Next time you're in town, Jeff. Well, it's been fantastic. I think we should probably wrap it up now.

Jeff (30:12.584)

Yeah, thanks for sharing your story. Thanks for watching and listening, everybody.

David (30:16.672)

And we'll be here next time. See you.