Yodeling, Rootin’-Tootin’ Recording & Writing Cowboy Songs

Dust off your boots and grab your hat - in this episode, we’re heading behind the scenes of our Cowboy Songs production music album!

Inspired by the charm of The Three Amigos and City Slickers, we set out to write cowboy songs that feel authentically traditional but cinematic enough for use in Film & TV.

We walk through the full process, from songwriting and orchestration to the logistics of recording across two continents, with rhythm sections in Chicago at Transient Sound Studios, and orchestral sessions at Abbey Road Studios in London. 

Along the way we talk about the challenge of finding the right sound, and the even bigger challenge of tracking down rootin’-tootin’ yodelers and world-class Americana musicians to bring it all to life! Easy, right?!

#filmmusic #cowboysongs #cowboymusic #productionmusic #composer #composers #abbeyroad #wildwest #tvmusic #filmcomposer #songwriting #librarymusic #tvcomposer 

Transcript

Jeff

Today we are going to talk about cowboy songs.

David (00:10.286)

I mean most of my knowledge about the American West comes largely from Back to the Future 3. So I'm assuming that we've got varmint. Who can do a varmint rooting tooting? Like spit a bucket. The yodelling session was one of the bizarrest, funnest... Watching this dude just…I'm like, how are you doing that? Yee-haw! 

Jeff

Yee-haw!

Jeff (00:54.414)

Hello! Welcome to Two Composers, Two Continents, a podcast about our lives in the music industry and the people we meet along the way. the way. You can find us at Two Composers, Two Continents with the number two on YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, and all podcast platforms. Please hit like and subscribe, leave a comment.

David (01:13.07)

Don’t forget that, we need likes and Comments! We need comments, so nothing profane, please. 

Jeff (01:21.656)

But only nice comments.

David

Yeah, if you've got something you'd like to see or want to tell us something, do it. This is Jeffrey Megan!

Jeff

This is David Tobin. are once again, literally two composers, two continents. David, where are you right now?

David (01:35.572)

I am in my studio in West Yorkshire in a little town called Holmfirth in West Yorkshire, in Leeds if anybody cares. And you're in...

Jeff (01:40.312)

Very good. I am in my home studio in a little town called Chicago, Chicago, Illinois.

David (01:52.91)

A little town called Chicago. It's not as little as my town. 

Jeff (01:55.82)

It's a toddling town.

David

Well, what are we doing? What are we doing?

Jeff (02:01.28)

So today we are going to talk about a project we did back in 2016 called Cowboy Songs, right? It is available on all the streamers as well. You want to tell us a little bit about it? Maybe what the brief was, how it’s inception?

David (02:19.628)

Well, we're going to make some stuff up about what the brief was. You tell us about what the brief was. Sure! I'll tell you about what the brief was on the basis that I have no idea.

Jeff (02:27.95)

I mean roughly, roughly. So in our discussions yesterday planning this pod, we both realized we don't remember the inception of this project, that it was either we pitched it to them or they asked us to do it, but I feel like we pitched it to them.

David (02:44.302)

And I think so too because it was at a point when they were saying, what do you fancy doing? And we said, we'll make some ideas up. And this was one of them.

Jeff (02:53.59)

And let us say that this is also pitching to Audio Network.

David (02:57.086)

Yes, and thank you Audio Network for this. This was at a time when Audio Network was branching into the American market much more strongly and they wanted all manner of things Americana, both cinematic Americana, they wanted songs, much more than we had been asked to do before that.

Jeff (03:14.85)

Well, that's an interesting point, David, because after this project, we did do that real cinematic country was, Great American West is what it was.

David (03:24.226)

That's true with Jen Green. Hi, Jen.

Jeff (03:26.894)

Which was I guess not along the same lines but kind of along the same lines right like old you know old westerny kind of…

David (03:35.628)

But that was much more cinematic. This was well, so let's start with the brief. So, we're using the word songs. I mean, we mean that literally these are songs, lyric songs and that itself is interesting because you're finding, I mean, you're finding lyrics that are not generic, that are specific to the style and not a period, but I mean, really most of the western stuff, I mean, it's probably Victorian when you go back, it's old, lyrically, you know, mean, that's when that was, right?

Jeff (04:11.456)

Yeah, I mean you're talking about, you know, wrangling the doggies out in the corral and all that kind of stuff, you know.

David (04:17.014)

Most of my knowledge about the American West comes largely from Back to the Future 3. So I'm assuming that we've got varmints.

Jeff (04:27.086)

Probably the case for a lot of people!

David (04:31.682)

But yeah, I mean it was finding those lyrics and I should also say that I'm gonna put this out there at the beginning. This was one of my favourite things that we have ever done. What a hoot of a blast of a time.

Jeff (04:43.79)

I totally agree! So let's talk a little bit more about it. Let's talk about maybe some of the writing ideas and how we came up with these. As, if you've listened to this podcast before, you know that we listen to or have a temp, if you will, a piece of music that we're using not as a guideline, but just as an example of the genre and maybe to inspire us. I know for myself, okay-

David (05:11.34)

No, I was just going to say, and also it's not just about inspiring us, it's when you're talking to a publisher or somebody else, and they say, what are you thinking? And you say, well, something along the lines of this, just stylistically or thematically. And it just puts you in the right, when they say, no, that's completely, it saves you a week of writing something when they say that's not where we're going. So anyway, back to what you were saying.

Jeff (05:35.054)

So for this particular project, I know I listen to, we both listen to The Three Amigos, City Slickers, which Marc Shaiman did that.

David (05:54.734)

He did. That is more, that obviously is cinematic, but I mean it was just, it's just about the flavours and to get you in there, that space. But we were listening to some really close harmony stuff.

Jeff (06:09.484)

Right. I guess that would have been like Gene Autry or... I'm not sure if I...

David (06:14.018)

That's a good point. It probably is.

Jeff (06:16.162)

I don't know if I actually listened to any of that. It was just kind of already inside me when we started doing those kind of cowboy songs, you know what mean? Yeah.

David (06:24.174)

But then again, I mean just I know we're jumping about here yeah, but part of my gig then is when you say let's do close harmony and then I have to write it out I'm listening to somebody else to say well exactly. How are they manifesting that? How is that going? So I then do listen to it more specifically rather than generally, but not gonna jump ahead. But yeah, that's kind of where I was as well and we were yeah, there was those movies that kind of Marc Shaiman-y, but also the three amigos thing. Well, we should talk about that song. Is that what you want to start with?

Jeff (06:55.296)

Yeah, we'll start with number one. We're just gonna go down the song titles here, which the first song on the album is Band of Brothers.

Jeff (07:10.439)

Oh my goodness. I mean it is totally a Three Amigos kind of inspired tune called Band of Brothers.

David (07:18.868)

We were listening to the City Slickers soundtrack because part of that band of brothers, that Three Amigos thing is it's very cinematic. This brass is a huge orchestral thing and it's got all of those you gong go gah go gah kind of rhythmic…

And you've got to get yourself in that but the thing about production music is you can't take 24 bars to get to that space. You've got to get there like now! So we're figuring out how to you know, put a square peg in a round hole. So we brought in our great friend Mark Armstrong, who worked on this and I said to him I remember saying to him well, what do you want from us here? How much of a lead sheet how much of a sketch and he said I want to sketch but he said because it's so cinematic, I want you to really paint a picture for me. And I mean, I'm not going to read it all out now, but there's a really long document. I might, we could even put it on the screen so you could see the kind of things we were talking about with Mark.

Jeff (08:21.006)

I know we were going through the files, but I don't remember how we must have... yes, of course, we have a really early scratch thing that I just did on guitar. And then, when it went to you and you fleshed this whole thing out, unfortunately, or maybe that was you, that's probably your Sibelius file, right? That you fleshed it out and sent it to him?

David (08:50.176)

I fleshed some of it out and then he's added to that and I think what you're hearing is where he's added to some of my fleshed out stuff. But what's interesting to me is the way that I'd written out in words just a really extensive document of exactly where he should place this and I'd done it as if I was a film director and I've said imagine a long shot where you're looking around this and you see these guys. So I'd given him this in a filmic way.

Jeff (09:18.83)

One of the other fun parts about this particular song was that it was a group of guys singing, right? It's the band of brothers. So there's four vocalists on it. And we'll talk more about the vocalists who are on the album. But for this particular tune, we had you and I sang. We are two of the band if brothers.

David (09:40.352)

And we sang so much on this album and that was just a blast.

Jeff (09:43.982)

We did a lot of singing on it. You especially, this is probably the most singing you've done on any one of ours.

David (09:50.86)

Well, I usually get wheeled out. I've got some very specific traits that I get wheeled out to do the very high medieval chanting. I mean, I'm great at that. I mean, that's me. Or it's the comedy songs. Not a lot in the middle. So there's not a in the middle. But this one, close harmonies, I can do that all day long. So we did that. And yeah, the Yippee-Ki-Yay, I was on it. 

Jeff

Singing Yippee-Ki-Yay. You’ll hear that a little later. So we also had for one of the other songs on the album, Paul Maranaro, who is a great jazz vocalist here in Chicago. And I mean, he's everywhere now. I mean, he tours around and does stuff. Fantastic guy. Agreed to do the song, which is not obviously what he would usually do. But he sounds so sweet on this little cowboy tune that he did. And he agreed to do this to be one of the brothers on Band of Brothers.

David (10:53.228)

One of my New Year's wishes is that the next time in Chicago, I've never met Paul Maranara. 

Jeff

Oh really?

David (11:01.164)

If you ever see this, we've worked together on a bunch of stuff and I just like to. There we go. That was a sidebar by the way. Ding!

Jeff (11:10.51)

We're kind of bouncing about and I apologize for that, but we did a song called The Lawman, which is maybe the third one on this album, and we needed a voice that was like Howard Keele. That is what we were looking for. A big, low, commanding wah. And gentleman by the name of Jim Corneliusen, is here in town in Chicago. He sings the national anthem for the Blackhawks games. He sings the national anthem for the Bears games sometimes.

David (11:40.908)

I saw him at the Blackhawks. I saw him. I came in the year they won the Stanley Cup. And he was singing.

Jeff (11:46.136)

That's right. So he was kind enough to agree to come sing on the album and he was the fourth brother. He's the big voice in the bottom.

David (11:56.022)

Although I have to say one of my favourite memories of this of that song and yeah we're bouncing about but it's fine. Is your demo of you getting that…I am the lawman.

David (12:20.718)

So anyway, yeah, let's go back. So we were talking about the band of brothers. But yeah, just putting those four voices together and it really is like that three amigos…

Jeff (12:30.998)

So fun. Yeah, yeah, it brings a smile to my face. Yeah. So song number two and this is back in the saddle. I guess you know before we go to the next song, let's talk a little bit about the recording process on this because I think that'll kind of help shed some light on these tunes.This was done in an unusual way for us, because we've recorded most of the rhythm tracks or all of the rhythm tracks here in Chicago in Transient Sound Studios. Very good, yes. Steve Gillis and Vijay, they own it together. I know we had Dan Murphy on piano, we Corey Biggerstaff on bass, we had Neil Alger on guitar, maybe I didn't know the players, and Darren Scorza on drums. Aside from Band of Brothers, which I think was all orchestral, whatever guitar and stuff we put in was afterwards.

David (13:27.544)

Yeah, no, that was Neil afterwards.

Jeff (13:29.762)

So it was split between Transient Sound and Abbey Road because Band of Brothers, The Law Man, the strings on Rio Grande, those were all obviously had orchestral elements that we did at...

David (13:46.464)

At Abbey Road and we'll talk about that Abbey Road session in there because that was kind of crazy session but we'll get to that.

Jeff (13:53.39)

So yeah, so the recording method was a little different on this. So this kind of is an explanation as to how we got all these Chicago singers and Chicago elements on this album. So that then gets us to the second tune, which is Back in the Saddle.

David (14:20.684)

Yeah, and you know what? Because we know that when you're doing an album like this, the whole point about production music is you don't want seven tracks that are hit the same genre entirely. You want to cover the gamut of what you need for something like this. So you end up with slightly different instrumentation. On some albums you'd go, OK, we've got a palette and they're all the same. But for this, there were different instruments on different tunes. I'm looking to the side here because I've got here a spreadsheet and we've literally got ticks yeses and nos pedal, steel, guitar, banjo, fiddle, accordion, harmonica, symphonic brass, strings. And it's literally you're just ticking off what do we need on what and how will you put this together in a session and who's going to play what. So there's a logistical element to doing something like this. I mean, we say, oh yeah, it was really fun, but actually just practically a lot goes into it.

Jeff (15:19.36)

Absolutely.

David (15:19.96)

Figuring out who, what, when and how is like a Jenga kind of thing.

Jeff (15:23.392)

It really is. And it, you know it just sort of the pieces kind of come together slowly especially when you're, because like you mentioned earlier Neil came to my house, and he played some guitar, the banjo player the fiddle player all came here, the pedal steel player did it remotely because it was just one tune mm-hmm. So yeah, so all those kind of pieces kind of just slide into place as time goes by

David (15:48.11)

Yeah, it takes a lot of figuring out who, what, when and how and then you've got to budget it all because you've got to agree all of that. Yeah, there's some logistical stuff. But yeah, so we were talking about what tune were we talking about? Back in the saddle. So is that you singing?

Jeff (16:04.212)

No, is Solitaire. So, Neil Alger, who's unbelievable guitarist here in Chicago who we have used for many things many times throughout the year or throughout the years, he had done multiple recordings with Solitaire Miles. Now Solitaire is just a fantastic singer. is, yes, yes, and she does like cowboy music, which is so amazing and she's right, you know, in the tri-state area, if you will. I think she's in Indiana. So that's how I came up with, or we came up with Solitaire, but it's also how we found Jim Corneliuson.

David (16:44.052)

That's so cool. Because then you hear him on a game and you're like, I know that guy. But also it's just a recognizable voice to people who know that stuff.

Jeff (16:53.196)

Yeah, yeah. And also just an example of kind of how you gotta use your network.

David (17:00.77)

But yeah, no, you are right. A network for this kind of thing is absolutely crucial because particularly if you're going to go into different genres and things that are quite specific, I mean, you can't know everybody. So there's a little black book of just who knows who and it just widens.

Jeff (17:18.462)

It always amazes me how people are doing all kinds of different projects out there and you just never know. I mean, Solitaire, I never would have discovered that. And that Neil is playing guitar on cowboy albums here in Chicago.

David (17:33.398)

There you go. And we're going to get to another way to find people in a minute, but I'll wait. I'll wait when we get to that song.

Jeff (17:40.246)

Yeah. So back in the saddle, T.C. Furlong played the steel guitar.

David (17:45.891)

And who else was on that?

Jeff (17:48.022)

The rest is just the rhythm section. So then the third tune is Lawman. Of course, we mentioned Jim Cornelius in already singing on it.

David (17:56.568)

Who whistled on it? It's got whistling on it. Was it you or him?

Jeff (17:59.47)

It's either you or me. It's me. I think it was me.

David (18:09.678)

Jeff is a genius whistler by the way, for those that don't know and need to book a whistler. He whistled on the feature film Super Size Me 2. 

Jeff

That’s right, right at the beginning.

David

Yep and we had a... actually that was like a cowboy moment. Yeah you are the cowboy whistler!

Jeff

I remember that track, called The Maverick. So anyway, Lawman cracks me up every time I hear it. What's the... In a western town... Western trail. On the western trail.

Jeff (18:57.262)

So fun. All right, then we got Rio Grande.

David (19:13.321)

With Paul Maranaro.

Jeff (19:15.886)

I just I love that tune. It's so cliche, I get it. It sounds like a million things. The guitar riff has been done a million times. I mean, yeah, really, you can almost hear the horse's hooves.

David (19:38.894)

But I had such a good time because on that one I orchestrated that and we said okay we wanted to do it. 

Jeff

And you did the Lawman too.

David

Thank you I did. But Rio Grande was one of those that I really put in an extra yard and started listening to how is it orchestrated, how do strings work on those kind of things and I looked at some old scores and I was listening to the, know, not City Slick not the funny stuff, but the underscoring stuff. And how do they voice and who does what? And yeah, there was some learning points for me in that and I really enjoyed doing that track.

Jeff (20:17.494)

I do, you know, that song, I remember, you know, sitting down and writing that thing, just the lyrics and thinking originally like, this is really hokey and corny. And I just felt really legitimate. You know what I mean? Like, like got me a little emotional because it was just something about it was like, this is crazy, but it's so good. It feels…

David (20:40.45)

Yeah, and you know it's so funny when I heard Paul sing that because I wasn't there for that session and this was he came to you right and you sent me the files and actually I'm just remembering this now but I was in the studio here while you were recording it there so I heard it just a few minutes after you'd done it literally and I remember hearing it and the hairs on the back of my neck just went whoa that is he's just got that kind of voice where he's not trying that hard and it's just effortless but it's just you know on the money.

Jeff (21:14.51)

Yeah, he said that, uh, forgive me, Paul, I'm going to screw up the story, but his brother heard it or something. And his brother's like, man, you should do this kind of music all the time. Hey what the hell? 

David 

No, there's no money in it…

David

Yeah, really? So, all right. So after that, we got song of the trail, which again is Solitaire Miles. 

Sidebar. It turns out that I actually sang this along with David. And here's the proof!

Yeah, trail song. Total cowboy thing. Into the Western sky, which is just David and I and Neil Alger. Neil's plugging away on guitar and David and I did all the vocals.

David (22:11.222)

We realized it was going to be close harmony. Really fast. And then I had to go away and score it, like paper score it. We're to put on a screen at some stage in this pod. We've got the score. I found it, dug it out, dug the vocal score out. And this is where I finally got to sing really high, just singing endlessly. Really, really tight trouser time and doing that. Then when we got to the middle, we said, this needs a yodeller. This definitely needs, this is what it... This needs a yodeller. And I said, you know how the yodel and he's like, just like, nah, I'm like, me neither. I mean, I could, so then you let your fingers do the walking, right?

Jeff (22:55.262)

Googled yodeller in Chicago or something like that and we found this gentleman who lives in Springfield, Illinois or it did at the time Randy Irwin. Cowboy Randy. He is a yodeller. He is a damn good yodeller.

David

Amongst many other things, this guy's a polymath.

Jeff (23:16.632)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was a really talented dude.

David (23:19.308)

And I should say that the yodelling session was one of the bizarrest, funnest, sitting not far from where you're sat right now, watching this dude just, I mean, it's not just the facial, yeah, but the head and then the body went and then he was just, just like, and then he's like, do you what it a different way and he's like making all these noises and face shapes. I'm like, how are you doing that?

Jeff (24:11.422)

I will give away a little secret on this, that the final edited yodel wasn't one take so we combined a couple of takes and really it's impossible to yodel it because we left no room for breath in our edit.

David (24:28.878)

He's yodeling over and over and over and over again. Yeah, yeah. He'll go at a hundred miles an hour, yodel-yodel-yodel and then go...

Jeff (24:47.438)

And then he flies way up into us falsetto and then...yeah.

David (24:51.33)

But it was also just how you, the control of an instrument. Cause when you hear it, it sounds like comedy, but then you just realize how specific the skill is to do that.

Jeff (25:05.228)

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people can, you know, can do the flip between a head and a chest voice, obviously, to get the yodel, but to do it and like be an accomplished yodeller is something.

David (25:19.342)

Also that dude can really play the spoons, but that's another story for another day. He had them in his pocket.

Jeff (25:24.374)

I remember that. Well, we'll get to it. So, I think the next tune is Doing What I Do Best, another Randy Irwin tune, right?

David (25:37.294)

Was it Randy in the end? Yeah, I guess it was. Yeah, before we got Randy, so we said we want somebody who sounds like an actor who can do a varmin rootin tootin spittin a bucket. And we were like, you know, when you go through your contact book, the little black book and you go, who do I know that does that? And you come up with nothing. And you end up on voices.com! Which was more for actors than singers and you put a thing up and you're like who can do it? There were some crazy dudes just do kind of..

Jeff (26:18.158)

Absolutely. So I joined voices.com and I think you get a rep and he contacted me and I told him what we were looking for and he sent a bunch of auditions our way. Like he put the blurb out and then I forget how many we got. But so one afternoon we were just going through people doing crazy kind of stuff.

David (26:43.436)

Honestly, it was like a Warner Brothers cartoon, somebody's spitting in a bucket, you know, and it was some of them didn't even sing. Some of them were just like talking. Yeah, it was. And then we used none of them.

Jeff (26:51.918)

We used none of them. No. And I mean, once we found Randy, we probably were like, dude, can you do this as well? And he was like, yeah. So…

David (27:03.576)

the same time on at Abbey Road that we were recording all of this stuff, we were also recording this, these Christmas tunes. One of the oddest mix of, you know, we'll go to, Cowboys slash Christmas, which is what the Google sheet is called here, which is like really random. So we did joy to the world. We did oh little town of Bethlehem. Yeah, no. So it was really, really cool and doing what I do best. Which we should also mention our fiddle player, Stuart Rosenberg. Sadly the late Stuart Rosenberg, a proper country fiddler, not just a violinist.

Jeff (27:42.734)

Yeah, no, yeah, he was like a bluegrass guy. Yeah. I think. And on doing what I do best, there were, did you play the mouth harp? 

David (27:53.986)

Yeah, the jaw harp. Yeah. And we also had now which tune was banjo? We had our banjo player on…

Jeff (28:02.574)

Certainly doing what I do best.

David (28:04.898)

Yeah, Gus Freelander.

I'm watching him play the joy on his face as he's finger picking at a million miles an hour.

Jeff (28:17.966)

He also did the, he did a solo on Back in the Saddle, didn't he? Like you said in the beginning, I really think this was one of my favourite projects. Looking back, it was one so different –

David (28:37.152)

You kind of go I can't believe we make a living doing this because I can remember standing in the studio with you and we're you know dancing to the western sky. And going what are we doing with our lives?

Jeff (28:51.738)

That is, if you guys take a moment and listen to the tunes that sing in Yippee-ki-yay, you will definitely recognize David's voice as the Yippee-ki-yay.

David (29:01.996)

Yeah, it felt like somebody just recently based in Yorkshire, it felt like the right line. So what's your favourite tune on the album?

Jeff (29:13.066)

Honestly, think I love Rio Grande. That's probably my favourite. Western Sky, I really love listening to. We just had a lot of fun doing that. And then Band of Brothers. I mean, I love all of them, but those are probably my...

David (29:28.536)

Yeah, I mean, Band of Brothers... I mean, it's one thing writing down and giving somebody a sketch for what you're looking for and then, you can write... I can high-five myself all day long for writing a word document that says we're looking for this. But Mark Armstrong, good lord.

Jeff (29:46.894)

He killed it.

David (29:48.872)

I know, that song, just between that and the vocals and the whole thing, that sounds like it's on a movie. And if it's not on a movie, directors, why is it not on a movie? Because it should be on a movie. Come on!

Jeff (30:00.846)

It's gotta have been used. I know it's been used places, but I don't know where.

David (30:05.847)

Yeah, it's one of the one of the odd quirks of our job that you write these things with lyrics you sing the hell out of these things and It's usually a shop window for the underscore.

Jeff (30:20.078)

Yeah, yeah, the lyrics go.

David (30:22.37)

Yeah, which is a mixed blessing in some ways. mean, God bless you for, you know, paying the bills. But sometimes I just want them to hear the song, you know, the actual song. So, yeah, but still, I love it.

Jeff (30:34.85)

They certainly can on all the streamers go out there check it out. Yahoo!

David (30:39.944)

Yahoo! And yeah, so band of brothers, find it on the streamers. I think that's probably it for this, but I would just like to say I know that this isn't relevant because this isn't going out at the new year, but we are recording this around the turn of the year and I just want to say thank you for everything in 2025, Jeffrey. This year has been a hoot, even though this will probably go out in March.

Jeff (31:03.182)

That's right. Thank you as well, David. It's been a good year.

David (31:05.612)

It's been a great year and we're going to go back over some old podcasts, some old projects on some new things, but we're also going to look at some new things. We've got some things coming up this year that we're going to, we're going to cut a look ahead rather than a retrospective podcast, which is going to be interesting. We're going to welcome a new member to our podcast who won't be on the screen who will be helping us, but I am going to give her a name check. Evie Kitching, who's going to be helping us with our podcasts.

Jeff (31:32.974)

She's the best. Absolutely.

David (31:34.552)

There you go. And until the next time, don't forget to like and subscribe to the podcast. Leave us some comments!

Jeff (31:40.59)

And thanks for listening.

David (31:43.47)

Till next time, see ya. 

Jeff

Bye. 

David

Bye.