Networking Without Networking: The Power of Music Communities

During a recent recording session in Nashville, we were reminded just how small the music world really is! 

In an industry that can often feel remote, and at times pretty lonely, community matters more than ever. 
From village choirs to Facebook groups and organisations like the Society of Composers and Lyricists (SCL), there are endless ways to connect with like-minded musicians/composers, find collaborators, and build lasting relationships.

The truth is, the best networking rarely feels like networking. We talk about how real opportunities come from simply showing up, contributing to a community, and letting connections grow over time.

#musiccommunities #musicindustry #networking #musicnetworking #composernetworking

Transcript

David (00:03.502)

Welcome to Two Composers, Two Continents, a podcast about our lives making music together and the people we meet along the way.

Jeff (00:15.842)

You can find us on Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, Facebook at Two Composers Two Continents using the number 2 and all audio podcast platforms.

David (00:24.686)

Yeah, and don't forget to like, to subscribe, leave us a comment, it really helps, a review. And today, today Jeffrey, community! So we're going to talk about musical communities a bit, we're going to talk...

Jeff (00:37.71)

Just communities in general, I think. That's fair to say.

David (00:42.316)

So, this is really about what we even call a community, why we want them, what the types of communities we're a part of, more musically focused probably. So how did this come about?

Jeff (00:56.71)

Som we were just in Nashville recording. The brass guys, in particular the guy, the contractor for the brass, you were talking to him and he knew a lot of mutual people that we've worked with and that you know in the UK.

David (01:08.846)

Yeah, I might have his name wrong. think it's Roy Agee or Agee, but I think it's Agee.

Jeff (01:14.382)

Yeah. And so, and Roy knew some Chicago folks and so we just got talking about what a small community, the music community can sometimes seem. It does seem like that, you know, how you can work with someone here or in Nashville and they're like, Oh, I know, you know, I know Jim Gallerato or I know, you know, these Chicago dudes.

David (01:34.574)

And you know, it's interesting, I find myself doing this, that when I get to meet somebody in the musical community, the first thing we do is establish mutual... Who do you know? Who do you know that I know and that we can mutually go, okay, we've got something in common. So he was saying, I know this guy, Tom Walsh in London, and I've worked with this other guy, Tom, if you're watching, hi! You're not watching, you're out making music. But yeah, but I've worked with these guys and I know these guys in London, or as you say,and it was really interesting because it becomes a badge of honour almost that, okay, we're a part of a group and you band together. And it does, it feels surprisingly small. I mean, I know that part of this podcast is about talking about the many layers and the different parts, but some of the communities get smaller and smaller and smaller and it's not about people who work in pop, it's about trombonists or just brass players or really small niche things.

Jeff (02:32.89)

That's what, yeah, like the brass guys, you know the other brass guys. I mean, I'm sure that's a huge generalization, of course, but that these small communities in a larger community exist. Because we don't, mean, hip hop and bluegrass, I mean, there's a million genres of music that we know nothing about and don't run in.

David (02:53.058)

I like the way you've put those two together. I would like to hear...

Jeff (02:54.84)

Well, there you go. mean, that's like Ying and Yang. 

David (02:57.11)

I would like to hear those put together. But yeah, but we don't run in those communities, but the ones we run in, which because of the nature of the music involve more live musicians as well as production, it's about people knowing people. I guess that's, we were trying to come up with what is a community. 

Jeff

What is a community? 

David

What is a community? In your best Dick Van Dyke, hello Mary.

You saidm it was a group of like-minded people. And I think, obviously, if you've got geographical communities, you may not be like-minded at all. So you can have a community where you live, and it may be that you get together to talk about where the rubbish gets put out. I'm not using the word trash. I don't care if I'm in Hollywood. I'm a Brit through and through. But it could be anything to do with local stuff. But in terms of what we're talking about, it's like-minded stuff.

Jeff (03:51.754)

So yeah, we were, then we got talking about a larger conversation about communities and we are, I've been involved with the SCL for a while which is another community.

David (04:06.734)

Hold on there, let's go backwards here because we've never explained what the SCL is. Let’s do that.

Jeff (04:11.842)

We're gonna do that right now. So the SCL is an organization called the Society of Composers and Lyricists. I haven't been a member that long, a couple years really, maybe three years now, and got involved with the folks in Chicago in trying to start a Chicago chapter of the SCL. I know we wrote down what the SCL is here. Yeah, go ahead.

David (04:31.63)

So do you want me to read it out? Okay, the SCL is the premier non-profit organization for professional composers, lyricists and music creators who work in visual media such as film, TV, video games and musical theatre. It serves to advance the interests of these artists by promoting community, providing educational seminars and yeah, it's...

Jeff (04:56.878)

It's the largest single group of music creators in the industry. 

David 

Well, there you go.

Jeff

I mean that's just an example of a music community that we're both involved with now because you have joined and are hopefully getting involved with that one.

David

And there's a talk of there being a London chapter, I'm very much hoping to be involved in that at time of recording we're still, that's a discussion point. And we do have other organizations, it should be said, in the UK, like the Ivors Academy. But still, still I think there is room for another organization, and I'm looking forward very much to being involved in that.

Jeff (05:35.052)

Well, I think, you know, just being involved in organization in general, I think, at least for me, for the SCL, I mean, I'm a member of the Academy as well, the Recording Academy. I mean, I've been involved with other things along the way. And to me, it's always so refreshing to be in a room with people who, one, you can have a conversation about really perhaps specific things of, know, you we talk about plugins and you know and really geekystuff.

David

What VSTs do you use??

Jeff

What'd think of the new Pro Tools update? You know? Geez, really...

David (06:12.716)

Honestly, I've been in those rooms. I go to the people who do, another sidebar, the people who do tech support for us. Hello, Yellow Technology. I go to a yearly thing and there are endless, yeah, what did you think of version 3.3 of - things that other people would be like, God, do I have to do this? But it excites everybody because where do you meet those people?

Jeff (06:37.902)

Well, and yeah, I where else can you develop relationships with people and maybe meet a collaborator, maybe meet someone who can get you a gig or at least you can talk about not having gigs together or, know.

David (06:52.398)

Yeah, and it's not going into it transactionally saying, I'm here to meet somebody I can get work from. yeah. But that said, you just open yourself up to possibilities. You just don't know who you're going to meet. I mean, we were at an event the other day and we were stood in,honouring a composer at the time. And yeah, we were stood talking to people and you meet so many people who was like, oh, I know a guy that you know and I've known him for 30 years and all of a sudden you're having a discussion with somebody and you just don't know what networks you're opening yourself up to. But also you're right, being able to talk about, commiserating about, there's nothing around at the moment and what am I doing? You just don't feel alone.

Jeff (07:41.358)

Yeah. Well, and I think that, at least for me, and maybe this will help some young people out there, if young people ever watch this crazy podcast we're doing, but to go into these situations, knowing that the possibility exists of getting a job and the possibility exists of meeting a collaborator, but just going into it thinking, I just want to be here around these people. Not actively looking for those. Pitching yourself and... It changes the vibe a little bit.

David (08:17.421)

I think 10 years ago, it may or may not, it wasn't different for me, but it may have been for some people, but certainly post COVID, more and more people are working in a room by themselves and it can be lonely. And you don't know, I mean, you can work and you might not meet people one week to the next. And all of a sudden you go to a place and you're meeting other people who are doing, they know what you're going through. And they do, or they don't do exactly what you do, but a related thing. It's a support network as well. So that's really important. So the SCL, good thing, get involved.

Jeff (08:49.846)

Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, so in talking about this and we're doing this FYC thing for the Grammys, which has been interesting to say the least. But we got involved with these Facebook groups, right? And I know you have used Facebook groups for years.

David (09:09.664)

I want to talk about Facebook groups specifically, but I'll hold mine.

Jeff (09:13.674)

No, go ahead.

David (09:16.244)

I find Facebook a sort of interesting bedfellow if you will because it can be a huge time waster because I'll start looking at things that have nothing to do with anything... 

Jeff (09:26.966)

I mean that’s social media in general, right?

David

But there's another side to Facebook and that is it's not dissimilar. This is a weird analogy but stick with me here. It's not dissimilar- we used to have, I don't think this was a thing in the US, but in the UK we would have two or three TV channels. That was it. There was no specific... 

Jeff (09:48.078)

This is when we were kids.

David

Yeah, I mean even up to when I was even not just kids, but I mean up to the age of 16, 17, there might've been four channels. 

Jeff

Unless you had cable.

David

We didn't have it. There wasn't... 

Jeff

No, it's the same here.

David

So there was no specific niche I really want to watch Pickleball TV or that wasn't a thing. It was all general. And this is a weird segue, but this is similar. What Facebook has done is allowed groups of like-minded people to section off and make a Facebook group about smaller and smaller niche things. So they could be as specific as I use Pro Tools and I want to talk to people who use Pro Tools. And that could be because I want to say, can you believe they haven't done this, but it can be very specifically, how do I find this function? So it could be anything. But you know you're talking to somebody else that uses what you use. But that's also the case for, I'm a composer, or I'm a composer of visual media, or I'm a composer of visual media for animation, or really more and more more more niche, right down to, I mean, I'm a member of a group, and I've named check Dan Graham before on the podcast but Dan wrote a book called The Composer's Guide to Library Music. And there is an associated Facebook group. At first that was about the specifics of the book. Then it became more than that, to me anyway. If I want to talk to other library music composers, I'm not in a group of other library music composers, but everybody in that group is interested in writing production music, or is already doing it, or is really into it for 20 years. And I know publishers who are in that group. I know our publisher in that group. 

Jeff

So it’s a resource.

David

It becomes a resource. Thank you. That's a good way of putting it. So as well as being a place to meet people, if I want to know something, I put it up there. And I also give back. I see questions up there and I can answer the question up there. But where else are going to find that?

Jeff (12:03.116)

It's, I mean, thank God it's a unique thing for our time, right? That, I mean, it's been around for a while now, obviously, but yeah.

David (12:11.392)

It's so specific. I mean, we talked last time about these tablets that we use, these Remarkable tablets. I'm on groups very specific how to make a Canva template for the right size. One group. 

Jeff

You are working it!

David

The thing is I don't have to troll through. If I want to find something out, I don't have to go on Google and be searching. I just go on a group. I ask a question, somebody answers the question and then I go back to it when I need it.

Jeff (12:38.594)

Yeah, I mean, you can use that for fixing your toilet too.

David (12:44.878)

That’s my point, is it’s a community of like-minded people or anything you want to find out. And so there’s Facebook groups. So I think those are very useful.

Jeff (12:52.856)

I totally agree. So I made a small list of groups that I've been in in my life that have meant something to me. And some of them are, I was only in the group because of the place I was working, which is interesting, which leads me to our Audio Network discussion because I was thinking of how one's work can sort of sometimes be considered a group, right? Yeah. And I do feel like the people we work with via Audio Network is a community that of like-minded people that I feel, you know, kinship with and that it doesn't always have to be strangers, it can be right, you know, it's a mind shift how you look at something, but yeah.

David (13:38.38)

Yeah, it can be sometimes you dip in and out.

Jeff (13:40.706)

Yeah. So I used to work at a mallet company about Mike Balter Mallets. And we would go to PASIC every year, Percussive Arts Society International Convention. And that was a group of percussionists. And it was about the same thing, community, advocacy, teaching, which is just such a cool thing. If you're a drummer or percussionist, look it up. Go to PAS, it's such a fun show. And we used to go to the Midwest Music Conference in Chicago, which again, is a conference and people are using it to sell their goods and perform and stuff. But again, it's all about community, bringing people together who love the same stuff.

David (14:22.146)

You know what? You've just reminded me of something that I've written no notes on and hadn't thought of and it's just jumped into my head. And I'm going to just look over here for a minute. I want to say hello to the Honley Male Voice Choir. There you go. I am a proud member of a choir. Look them up online. I was never going to join a choir. I'm busy. I've got other stuff on and I do lots of musical stuff. So my father-in-law, Gareth, hi Gareth, moved in next door and they've always been in choirs. He went to go to the choir and I said, well, I'll come with you just to get you bedded in, just settled in. He didn't need that at all, but I went along and I've stayed. But my point being that there is a community around this choir. We go to events and dinners and there's an archery tournament next week and there's completely nothing to do with the reason. So it has become a group of friends. And in fact, even this morning, I got a message on a WhatsApp group - Where are you? What you doing? So I was putting pictures of the canyon we were at yesterday. I can't even remember the name of the canyon we at yesterday, but I was putting pictures and telling people what I'm doing. Nothing to do with the choir. It's a community. And interestingly, some people in that community, it might be one of their only communities. It can be a very valuable thing outside of the reason why you get together. It's a...

Jeff (15:49.122)

So yes, I mean that's obviously, I mean everything's a community, mean church can be a community, you know, the PTA can be a community. And we started this discussion by talking about music stuff and I don't know if people think of it the same way, but maybe, you know, our discussion today will help them reach out and think, my God, you know what? I bet you there is a, I really like, you know, playing the oboe. And even if it's just for fun or you know, and I'm going to find the Oboe community out there.

David (16:23.054)

But what's interesting, well, hook me up because I'm an oboist. But I think the important thing is some people want in-person stuff. Some people get freaked out by that and they want it online. But you can find communities in a way that you couldn't. Of all of the terrible, terrible things that happened during COVID, one of the good things that came out are more and more online communities because we had to have them. And so, as well as having communities of people near you, I mean, I'm in communities with people who are all over the world. And you don't even think, I don't even think about it as community until we're overtly talking about it. And then you think, yeah, that's true. I was talking to one of the guys who's local to here, who's an Audio Network composer, and I mean, we chat occasionally, not often, but we chat occasionally. But without that sense of, you know, we belong to the same thing. And equally, talking Audio Network, we were at a function the other day and we met somebody who works for the company who was saying, yeah, I know you. 

Jeff 

How do you know me? Stalker.

David

You think, we've never met. But we've never met. But there is this community of stuff. You don't even always know that it's there. Until you look.

Jeff (17:46.604)

Very interesting. Is there anything else you want to add?

David (17:51.2)

No, I think this has been great. I think the important thing is for me, and I'm not going to dwell on this, but over the years I've had my mental health issues and isolation is a bad thing. I don't care who you are and how much you think, I like being by myself. Isolation is just bad. It's not good. You don't have to go in person to stuff. You don't have to put yourself into a position that you're not comfortable.

But for what it's worth, I think being prepared to talk to somebody and I don't mean a professional. I mean as far as this community is concerned. Physically talk to somebody. Whether it's text talk, whether it's actually talk, but this is good for... Yes, I think it's really important to actually be part of a community in any form. I think it's important.

Jeff (18:40.962)

Met my wife doing community theater. Get out there, folks. Do something!

David

There you go.

Jeff

There you go. All right. Hey, I hope you enjoyed our little talk about communities. Why not, right?

David (18:52.814)

Until the next time. 

Jeff

All right, see ya. 

David

See ya.